Is our physical brain one and the same with the consciousness, thoughts and perceptions we experience? Is matter all there is ultimately? Keith Ward is a prominent Christian Philosopher & Theologian. The Former Regius Professor of Divinity at Oxford University. He believes in an immaterial mind, as well as the phsical brain. David Papineau is Professor of Philosophy of Science at Kings College London. As an atheist & physicalist he believes that the mind is one and the same with the brain - there is nothing immaterial about it.