Rev. Dr Michael F. Bird explains why he chose to debate Douglas Wilson, a controversial figure in American Christianity. Bird argues that honest engagement, fair critique, and open dialogue are better tools than censorship or outrage for addressing the influence of Christian nationalism. In this article, he shares his reasons for participating, the audience he hopes to reach, and why shining a light on difficult voices is vital for meaningful conversation and change.
A lot of people have asked me why I bothered to debate Douglas Wilson and give a platform and more airtime to a man known for unseemly views about the confederacy, slavery, women, and Christian nationalism. And that is without considering reported scandals related to Wilson’s Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho, USA.
I maintain that I had three valid reasons for engaging in a good-faith discussion with Wilson.
First, you cannot truly refute someone unless you have taken the time to understand them.
Rather than offer a dismissive rejection, impute motives, or launch a tribal tirade against someone you disagree with, it is more effective to listen to them, appreciate their concerns, affirm where they are right, ask questions, pose scenarios, and only then engage in point-by-point critique.
A fair representation of someone’s view, a discussion in good faith, avoiding caricature and crassness, that is more likely to lead to a compelling critique than a superficial one.
If you treat people fairly, then your critique has more intellectual credence and moral authority.
Second, I was not trying to change Douglas Wilson’s mind.
When it comes to Christian Nationalism, my mind is made up, and so is Wilson’s. I was not trying to convert him, nor was I merely attempting to assist his critics in remaining fresh in their disgust with him.
Rather, I was trying to speak to people who are on the edge of his circle.
Some people are very sympathetic to Wilson and need to be given reasons for a second thought about him and his program. Also, there are people within his sphere of influence who are perhaps having doubts about his views and practices, but cannot quite pinpoint what is wrong.
It was those people who are “of” but not “in” Wilson’s circle, who have questions and concerns, but no one to answer them – that is who I was principally speaking to.
Third, love or loathe Douglas Wilson, you cannot ignore him in the US religious context.
Wilson is winsome, clever, resourceful, very media savvy, a religious entrepreneur – and thus all the more formidable. He has a large audience, influence extending into American politics, and has attracted acolytes even from the orbit of Pastor John Piper.
See his documentary with new atheist Christopher Hitchens, interview with Tucker Carlson, and zany festival of hyper-performative masculine contrarianism known as No Quarter November. The man knows how to draw a crowd and keep them enraged and engaged!
I believe the solution to bad religion is not censorship, government regulation of religion, or invectives on social media. Rather, sunlight is the best disinfectant. For some people, getting them to state their views is the easiest way to turn them off!
All I can say is that if you have friends who are fans, supporters, aligned with, or sympathetic to Douglas Wilson’s views of Christian Nationalism, then share the video with them!
Rev. Dr Michael F. Bird is Deputy Principal and Academic Lecturer in Theology at Ridley College, Melbourne, Australia. He is the author of over 30 books, including Jesus and the Powers, and the award-winning volumes The Gospel of Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesus, Evangelical Theology, and with N.T. Wright, The New Testament in Its World. Mike is also the host of the Ask NT Wright Anything Podcast.
