In this episode of Premier Unbelievable? comedian and host Andy Kind welcomes marine biologist and Christian author Rachel G. Jordan, author of If the Ocean has a Soul, and sceptic science-historian Dr Michael Shermer, founder of Skeptic Magazine and author of The Moral Arc, for a dynamic conversation exploring whether nature reveals divine purpose or reflects impersonal forces.

Drawing on Rachel’s book If the Ocean Has a Soul, today’s guests tackle questions on the nature of the soul, biblical interpretation of creation and evolution, and what counts as truth in science and faith. From coral reefs to cosmic entropy, they wrestle with suffering, beauty, and the possibility of redemption through opposing worldviews.

They explore awe, the hero’s journey, the implications of the gospel, and the call to care for creation. Can awe lead to belief? Does randomness rule the universe?